How to Buy a Vintage Military-Issued Watch

Every Tudor Submariner I own came to me by accident; here is why that is the strategy.

A few months ago, I attended a private collector event at Tudor HQ in Geneva, Switzerland (Read HERE). As an aspiring watch nerd, it was a transformative experience. The quality and quantity of military-issued Tudors was overwhelming and, more importantly, the knowledge contained in that room was unmatched. Each collection represented years, and even decades of research and commitment. It was inspiring at a level that is difficult to articulate.

Reflecting on the experience on the flight home, I quietly decided to build out a real collection and acquire an issued Tudor from each country that issued Submariners from the 1950s into the 1980s.  There was no urgency, and like many things in life, the journey, the knowledge gained, and the relationships built are often more valuable than the destination, which in this case was owning the watches.

My “tropical” reference 7928 Tudor Submariner from the first batch delivered to SEAL Team 2 after the commissioning of the SEAL Teams in 1962.

During the event, I displayed my South African Navy-issued Tudor Submariner 7016 from approximately 1974, a reference 7928 issued to US Navy Underwater Demolition Team/SEALs in the early 1960s, and another reference 7928 issued to Shayetet 13, the maritime SOF unit of the Israel Defense Forces. This meant I needed to focus on finding authentic references from the remaining countries known to issue Tudor Subs: Canada, Argentina, and France, with a few potential wild cards in the mix.

Last month I acquired my latest piece, a Tudor “Snowflake” Submariner reference 94010, issued to a Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) Clearance Diver in 1984, complete with a letter of provenance, patches, and a documented chain of ownership. I love this watch and consider it an honor to be its current custodian. If someone offered me twice what I paid for it, I would decline.

I have never considered myself a collector, let alone someone with a “collecting philosophy,” something that seems more suited for people who look like Nicholas Foulkes. That said, there is a clear pattern in how I have identified, assessed, and procured my vintage military-issued watches. The title of this article is slightly misleading, as it is less a “how to” guide and more an explanation of my current, but evolving, approach and mindset.

The “Collector’s Gene”

One term I have heard repeatedly is the “collector’s gene”, the concept that some people are simply wired to hunt, categorize, and obsess over objects. I can’t confirm whether this is a genetic trait, but if it is, I am confident I lack it. My brain simply does not work that way. I cannot recite reference numbers on command, often forget the details about my own “collection”, and the phrase “silicone hairspring” makes me think of something completely unrelated to watches.

My S13-issued Tudor Submariner (left) alongside my South African Navy-issued Snowflake. (Photo Credit: James Stacey/Hodinkee)

What really interests me is the human element of a watch. I value my South African Tudor not because of the name on the dial, the movement, or its mechanical properties, but because of the story of that watch, who wore it, what they did using it, and what it means that it survived to reach my wrist.

In the watch industry, I am a big-picture guy operating in a small-picture world, and I have made peace with that. That said, I have immense respect for those who have these genes, and my first step in any “hunt” is to seek out those with expertise. They are a fascinating and quirky bunch, and I mean that as a complement.

A Commando Hubert operator with his Tudor Sub from 1977 (left). A Blue “Snowflake” Submariner from Tudor’s archives.

Seek Knowledge - Not Watches

The truth is, if you want a UK Special Forces-issued Rolex MilSub, an issued Omega Seamaster 300, or a full set of the WWII-era watches from the “Dozen Dozen”, you can buy any of these today, assuming money is not an issue. Reach out to any well-respected vintage dealer, or even your favorite TikToker-turned-dealer, and within 24 to 48 hours they will be able to provide you with wire instructions and a FedEx tracking number. These guys have the gene and the network to know where many of these watches are and what dollar amount will make them available.

While I have purchased watches from several dealers and will again in the future, when it comes to vintage issued watches, I enjoy the hunt, the knowledge gained, and the relationships formed as much if not more than actually owning the watch itself.

(Photo Credit: James Rupley/W.O.E.)

My Grail  - South African Tudor Sub

My first truly collectable watch is my South African Navy-issued Tudor Submariner reference 7016 from approximately 1974. Given my connection to Africa, having lived and worked there for much of my life, this is my grail. And I came across it by accident. While researching for a previous article, I reached out to Ross Povey, who runs Tudor Collector.  Ross, who has the gene, was kind enough to take the time to share some of his knowledge over the course of a few conversations and countless WhatsApp messages. After much back and forth, he casually dropped that he was thinking about downsizing his collection, and specifically offloading the SAN Snowflake.

A few weeks later we stood in a parking lot in Liverpool, UK, and he handed me the watch. As I departed for the train, I promised to send the wire the following day; knowledge had been transferred, and trust formed. In fact, all of my Tudor Submariners were acquired somewhat by accident, typically as a byproduct of seeking knowledge.

Sometimes, a parking lot is the best place to buy a serious military-issued timepiece. 

Giving New Meaning to “Buy the Seller” 

One of the most cliché but generally useful pieces of advice is to “buy the seller,” which traditionally means making sure you are buying from someone you trust. With military-issued watches, this remains true but should also be extended to buying from someone whose expertise you trust. The aforementioned dealers are true watch experts, but vintage military watches are such a nuanced niche that no one can be an expert in everything. This is especially relevant in issued watches where even fundamental facts are not always known or agreed upon.  

But in this case, “buy the seller” means buying from people you want to have a relationship with. I prefer to buy from collectors. Of course, they want to ensure they get a fair market value for their watch, but for a true collector, ensuring a watch ends up in the right hands is equally important.  Ross remains a good friend and confidant to this day; he was present at the event in Geneva.

The key indicator is a phrase I have heard each time one of these transactions has gone the way it should: "I want to make sure this watch goes to someone who will appreciate it." It’s not about making the most money or moving it quickly. In each case, the seller had options and chose differently, and in my experience that tells you everything about who you want to buy from.

Get A Second Opinion

My superpower as a collector is the network I have. On a daily basis, I text a picture to a friend saying, "what do you think of this?", and I always lean on that network before making a purchase. While I acknowledge that being W.O.E. doesn’t hurt in this regard, you don’t necessarily have to have a large following to build these kinds of relationships. Collectors have one thing in common: they like to talk about their watches. Show genuine curiosity, ask good questions, and most people will give you more of their time than you deserve. Start with forums, Instagram, or your local watch meet-up. The knowledge is out there, and most of the people who have it are happy to share it, as long as you approach them with respect rather than a transaction in mind. 

Buying From Veterans: Mixed Feelings

In collecting circles, “fresh to market” means a watch that has not been passed around by collectors, dealers, and auction houses, and for many, it is the gold standard. I generally agree with this; a MN Tudor Submariner that has been auctioned at Christie’s is of no interest to me. 

Just last week, TJ Bender wrote a fantastic piece about identifying a Pepsi GMT-wearing Special Forces captain named Steve Torborg in a decades-old photograph, tracking him down, earning his trust, and ultimately buying his watch. It is a fantastic article, and I encourage you to read it in full (HERE).

Full disclosure: I have complicated feelings about this practice. Knocking on someone's door in hopes of acquiring something with deep personal meaning is not something I personally feel comfortable doing, even with the best intentions. The watch industry has a complicated history with this practice. I have heard more than a few stories of aging veterans selling watches to dealers for a few thousand dollars only to see them relisted for ten times that price within weeks. These are men who may not know what they have and are not always in a position to advocate for themselves in a transaction with someone who does this for a living. Not everyone who comes calling has their interests at heart. As in all business, try your best not to be a scumbag. 

This particular story, to its credit, appears to be an example of doing it right. The watch went to a friend of mine, a fellow Green Beret and avid watch collector who understands exactly what he is receiving and why it matters. I don't know the details of the transaction, and it is not my place to ask, but what I will say is that TJ could almost certainly have made more money selling to the open market, and, at face value, this reads as a dealer who prioritized the right outcome over the best margin. That matters, and it is worth saying out loud in a space where it does not always happen that way.

(Photo Credit: TJ Bender)

Condition & Originality Is Everything, or Is It?

Most watch experts will tell you that condition and originality are the most important things. If you are a true collector (i.e., you have the gene), I would generally agree. But for military-issued watches, there is some nuance here, and in some cases “poor” condition and even replaced parts can be a feature, not a bug. 

My Israeli Defense Force (IDF) Shayetet 13 (S-13) frogman-issued Tudor reference 7928 is in objectively poor condition, with four drill marks on the caseback used to facilitate caseback removal during servicing, more scratches and dings than you can count, and even black paint from when they covered the case and bracelet to prevent glare. In any other scenario, the watch would likely be chopped up for parts. But these details, to me at least, add to the value rather than detracting from it. The defects are indications of where it has been and the life it has lived. If anything, I would be skeptical of a “new old stock” military-issued watch; even if genuine, it lacks the character of a true issued piece.

IDF Issued Tudor Submariner Reference 7928, with the rehaut and lugs retaining the black paint. (Photo Credit: James Stacey/Hodinkee)

Not for the Faint-Hearted - A Word of Caution

I have spent the majority of my adult life at CIA, exploring the dark side of humanity. Arms dealers, terrorists, mercenaries, and spies were the norm. If there is one thing I have learned since becoming a watch influencer, it's that the watch industry can be as dirty and opaque as these other trades. The reality is, any industry that attracts wealth and money will also attract its share of bad actors.

The fakes and "frankenwatches" are ubiquitous, particularly with French Marine Nationale Tudors that include fake papers, engravings, and mismatched parts. What makes it genuinely treacherous is that the deception is not always intentional. In the past year alone, I have had the same watch offered to me by three different dealers/collectors, all presenting it as original, and all likely convinced that it was. 

Commando Hubert operators wearing issued Tudor Subs. (Photo Credit: Tudor Watch)

It wasn't. The same piece had two different bezel inserts and a different set of hands across the times I saw it, a detail immediately obvious to anyone who knew what they were looking at. I do not believe anyone was being deliberately dishonest. I think they simply did not know, and that is almost more concerning than outright fraud, because an unknowing seller passes the problem forward with full confidence and the next buyer has no reason to look twice.

While I am fairly confident my watches are real, I am prepared to wake up one day and learn otherwise. It’s a scary thought, but also the cost of doing business.

A Note on Price

While this article focuses on military-issued Tudor Submariners, which can range anywhere from $10,000 to $35,000, there are plenty of more affordable options with legitimate military associations from Seiko, the Dirty Dozen, Hamilton, Benrus, CWC, and others that are just as interesting and more attainable. The same rules apply.

Final Thoughts

I started this piece by saying the title is slightly misleading, and I will end it the same way. There is no perfect, repeatable formula for acquiring a vintage military-issued watch, and anyone who tells you otherwise is probably trying to sell you something. What I can tell you is that the watches I value most came to me through relationships built on shared curiosity, not transactions built on price. The Canadian-issued Tudor on my wrist right now is there because I sent a message to @moorewatches asking him about the authenticity of a different piece.

The watches themselves are almost secondary. What I am really collecting is history, and history requires context. A Tudor Submariner with notches on the caseback and black paint in between the lugs tells a story that a “minty,” unpolished Rolex Submariner 5513 ever could. A watch with history, real history, is worth more to me than the same reference in better condition with no story behind it. 

The men who carried these watches into the field are getting older, and the stories attached to these objects will not last forever. If you are going to do this, do it right. Seek knowledge first and build relationships with those you enjoy talking to and learning from. And when the watch finds you, and it will, make sure you are worthy of being its next custodian.

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